Yesterday, we ran the first part of our Koku Gamer Talks…Halo discussion, and there was a LOT of debating in the comments box. Now, it’s time to discuss our love and hatred for Halo in regards to Halo ODST, Halo Wars and those once feared Flood.
Yousif (Lead PS3 writer, dislikes Halo) managed to strike some chords with disillusioned Halo fans, but at the same time hit a nerve with the skilled Halo players. So the question you’ve all been asking: what controversial thing is Yousif going to say today? Well, you never know. Maybe Chris (Reviewer, indifferent) and I (Paul, News Writer, Loves Halo) had something nasty to say about Halo…
Nah, it’s Yousif again. So sit back and enjoy Part Two, the final part (and for those who missed out on Part One, here it is), of the discussion:
Paul: So what shooters or action games are doing it better than Halo?
Yousif: COD4, TF2 (PC), any PC shooter for that matter. That is what we should aim for.
P: But in terms of the console market? Only Call of Duty 4?
Y: The matchmaking system is, as I say, good. I believe everyone else should stand up and follow this lead, but the content of what you get for the matchmaking system is not good. I’m criticising the game, not the menu screen.
P: It’s not a rival to Halo, both are played by, very much, the same market. As is Gears of War. Team Fortress 2 has been left to die on the 360. Isn’t this just all about target markets?
Chris: Yeah, that’s true.
Y: Good counter argument there…
C: Do I detect sarcasm?
P: Well, sarcasm or not…I think Halo serves its purpose.
Y: Yes and not the one it should. Halo 2 and 3 should have been of higher quality. That is my main gripe with the series. It didn’t raise its potential as a game. It was happy to sit on its hands. With ODST, it looks like they have finally got the idea and have moved onto innovation.
P: …with the entire cast of Firefly?
Y: Not withstanding, I do love firefly, but the actual gameplay seems tighter, innovative and aesthetically pleasing.
P: It is pushing things, but it’s on an out-dated engine…remember? Surely it couldn’t push things…
Y: Yes, an outdated engine but not an outdated mechanic. Look at the Source Engine, capable of producing time and time again even years into its life cycle, producing new mechanics with Portal and Left 4 Dead.
P: Indeed, but isn’t ODST going to be an open-world affair? That says a lot about its robustness.
Y: Well, we will have to see. But I’m saying it is a step in the right direction. The story, I couldn’t give a damn about. The gameplay is where that game should be concentrating.
P: I will admit, as I said before, Halo was so interesting story-wise. Halo 2 had lofty ambitions, which I still liked. What about Halo 3′s story? I was disappointed.
C: Shocking ending…
P: What ending do you mean Chris?
C: Well, you could have skipped the credits and missed the second ending, and had to play it through on Legendary to get the third.
P: True, as some of my friends did…they thought I was taking the **** when we talked about the ending. But the previous games had such endings beyond the credits.
C: Unless you’re a fan, you will miss out.
P: After seeing all three, it leaves it off very well. Master Chief is heading off to some mystery planet…
Y: Perhaps Reach!!!! Oh, like I care…
Y: You could give me the most fantastic story in ODST, but if the gameplay is identical to the series – it can stay on the shelf. Tomb Raider got slammed for producing the same thing three times, as did Resident Evil. No way Halo shouldn’t get the same treatment.
P: Oh, I’m not defending Halo 3. I am defending Halo 2 for it taking the Covenant perspective. I enjoyed that.
C: Yeah, that was a good idea; playing as the Arby.
Y: Nice of them to add in a second player, but it didn’t do anything for me. What did the split of the Covenant do for the plot in the end? Anything different?
P: If we’re going to get philosophical about the story, then it left me realising that looks can be deceiving. I mean, did you really expect the elites to lead the charge? The introduction of the Brutes was an excellent move, it gave us something more menacing than the elites and added sympathy to the whole cause.
Y: The Brutes were nowhere near as fun to fight as the Elites, It really made you think you were fighting silly looking yetis instead of awesome aliens. It felt unnecessary and sudden.
C: The Gravity Hammer was fun though.
Y: Look, I enjoyed Halo 2 up until it stopped…then I wondered where the rest of my game was. All those levels we had seen in trailers that never saw the light of day. The poor animations, the mediocre mechanics for stealing vehicles and the bad introduction of enemies. The game should have done more.
P: I think the Brutes are okay. I do miss Elites in Halo 3…you don’t even see many of them at all, which was a massive disappointment. But In terms of story, I believe the Flood have really suffered the most since Halo.
Y: Oh, and the constant use of the Flood is the worst case of laziness I’ve ever seen.
P: True, the flood were genuinely scary in the first game…
Y: When they reappeared in Halo 2, I groaned rather than enjoyed it. Guess what happens in Halo 3? Same thing, three times.
P: Indeed. but I think 343 Guilty Spark has to go down as one of the best video game levels ever. The careful introduction of the flood, moving through the creepy jungle, and the video log from the marine’s helmet.
C: Yeah.
P: Just brilliant.
C: I wasn’t expecting zombie aliens.
Y: Oh, the first game is fantastic – I’m not denying that. One of the most fun shotguns I’ve ever used in an FPS, you felt like you were involved in something. But the Flood being reused felt like a lack of ideas from Bungie. Also, Gravemind’s introduction was sloppy and left most players saying ‘WAAAHH?????’
P: This is true. How much can we blame Bungie though? Should we blame Microsoft?
Y: Oh, I don’t care who we blame, I care that people ask for someone to blame while defending it. If you need someone to blame, then the game has its faults.
C: That’s a valid point.
P: Okay then. Let’s quickly touch on those games outside of the Halo we know. Halo Wars?
C: Boring and they should keep RTS games off consoles.
Y: Poor execution of an RTS around the time the PC RTS had evolved well beyond what they achieved.
P: But in terms of console RTS, surely a success?
Y: No, no, no! C&C on the PS1 felt better than that. In fact, I would rather play Red Alert on the PS1 and enjoy better controls plus a well balanced game.
C: I wouldn’t.
P: It had some genuinely nice ideas that linked gameplay and story though. I enjoyed the level where you fight the Scarab.
C: I think RTS games are poor on any console. Controllers can’t hack point and click.
Y: RTS could be done on console and I hope they get round to doing World in Conflict on console, which lends itself well to the pad control scheme using the camera like a first person shooter. Halo Wars was a poor attempt that felt very much like a cash-in.
C: Yes, it was.
P: Very well. And predictions for Halo: Reach?
C: I dunno, would help if we knew what it’s about.
Y: Hmm, more of the same would be the jaded man’s point of view…but I expect Master Chief to make a comeback and Bungie to try and send it off with a bang. The Battle of Reach is the obvious plot, where all the Spartans died. So maybe a CO-OP Spartan game like ODST but more bad ass?
P: Well, Reach is a prequel.
C: At the end of the day, we could be here all day saying what it could be. No-one knows except the devs.
P: So do we see Halo any differently now? Any Breakfast Club-esque changes in heart?
Y: No, I see it as the same disappointing over-rated game it was.
P: I’ll stop playing Simple Minds then…
C: Well, I like it. I just wish that Bungie would sort online and the DLC fragmentation. That aside, I still think it’s one of the best games on the 360. The number of players that still play it online is credit to how well Bungie has done.
P: I still think Halo’s great. But talking of all those Halo projects has made me realise that it isn’t just a few games anymore…it’s a fully-fledged franchise. It’s worrying when that happens in books, in movies and, I guess, video games too.
C: It’s grown. It’s got an anime series coming soon in Halo Legends.
P: There is a bigger potential to ruin, what was at one point, a great legacy.
C: I do hope they pick up the idea of making the feature film though…
P: And let’s leave it on that disappointing Halo 2-esque cliffhanger.
Yes, let’s do just that. But before you either run off or head to the comments box, we’ve set up a topic on our forum regarding Halo; do you love it or do you hate it, and why? Otherwise, the comments box is below – no registration needed. We hope to see you here again soon when ’Koku Gamer Talks’ returns!
That sounded really superhero’ish…
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You can tell Yousif wants to like Halo, even if he can’t admit it to himself. The PS Fanboy in him tells him to hate it. Snob.
@overnout
Actually, Yousif loves the first Halo. Not a big fan of the sequels.
@ overnout,
It’s funny that the first game is better than the last two even though they had better technology.
I agree with “P”, who is probably Paul when he talked about when a game becomes a full franchise.
It’s true, when this happens to a game, normally it turns out bad.
@ Harry
I really do not like the idea of video games extending beyond that medium. Maybe the game gets a movie but THAT’S IT! My favorite game this gen is probably Uncharted. When they announced a movie I was pissed because now I would have to see it because I love the plot. No game should have an animated series and even a book is a bit much. I don’t want to feel forced into reading a book in order to understand the new game coming out.
@bg93
Nathan Fillion!
The first one was good. The second kind of sucked, but it was still good enough. The third one closely rivals the first. Everyone has their own task in games and some people compare games to games they shouldn’t be compared to. Halo is in it’s own art style and it’s own style of story telling; that’s what makes it different then the rest.
I like the stories, not the repetitiveness of games like call of duty that in my opinion are just the same game over and over with few addition here and there.
well.. halo 3 is good but it has the worse campain ever created besides it feels cold all the game long but when it comes to online … it becomes something else
besides…the graphics are outdated and why the there are no boots in there ???
i mean I’m sure that there are milions of people who bought halo just because its rep or because it comes in a cool looking box but they were surprised by the fact they only have a silver mimbership . like my own neighbor .
Am I the only one not liking the flood in the campaign ?
well….. i think Halo crown is lost or something like that
now enough talk about halo lets talk about the great ‘ gears ‘ lol
@kop
You want Gears on a future Koku Gamer Talks?
@dyllan S.
sure, why not ?
I just wrote a virtual note from you and dropped it in the virtual suggestion box
Another debate using nothing but generalities with little to nothing to back them up. At least explain your responses, such as how pc games are so much better. Or how Halo 3 game play is not good. Or how it is unbalanced. Perhaps you need more knowledgeable people to spout your drivel at. Maybe then some interesting discussions could take place.
@JaggedSac
PC games are generally considered better because they are played on more powerful machines. A top of the line PC bests a 360 and PS3 any day. Some people also believe that a mouse and keyboard lead to better accuracy and reflexes when playing a game. Sure, these preferences don’t hold true for everyone, but that’s where the debate stems from.
Thanks for the comment though.
Jagged – We did, this is the edited down version of the discussion. Such things had to make way for readability. Most people know about Halo 3′s weaknesses because…they’ve played it. As for PC gaming being better, no.
Yousif was referring to PC shooters over console shooters…argue all you want, but the level of control on a PC shooter really does put console shooters to shame. As the discussion said, there are target markets for these games. It doesn’t necessarily mean that the games are of any better quality purely because they are on the PC, it’s just that they suit the format more.
And as for your comments on the discussion, taken on-board. But you must remember, this is our first stab at it and we’re looking to improve.
The only time the input device matters in an FPS would be if there were competitions between gamers using different ones. Games developed for controllers(good ones at least) have a different feel to them. A different idea of motion and movement. Does having a higher fidelity of control make the game better? That is debatable. It is after all, a contest as to who can shoot the other faster.
PC FPS gaming got to the point where two modes of thinking evolved. Make characters move fast enough where the extremely accurate nature of the mouse is hampered a bit(Quake 3, UT). Or make the game more about strategy and instant deaths(CoD4). Some even went the way of large battlefields and keep the characters movement normal, but add other things for gamers to do(Tribes).
It could be argued that due to the obvious fidelity of the mouse, the controller is more difficult to master. Harder to get head shots, harder to shoot while jumping, etc.
But these things are not really what interests me about your argument. What does interest me, however, is the negative nature at which Halo 3 game play is discussed.
Bungie really mastered the art of console controller FPS gameplay with Halo(and most games FPS games that are good on consoles have copied how Bungie uses the analog sticks, not in terms of layout, but in terms of movement speeds and stickiness). The movement is tailor made to analog sticks, driving is incredibly fluid(driving is one aspect console fps games have an advantage over the on/off nature of the keyboard), and the gameplay is simple. Melee, guns, grenades, and vehicles.
Halo 2 tweaked Halo CE game play for a more competitive environment(ie. removed the sniper pistol, balanced weapons, etc) and introduced the world to the matchmaking system. I already mentioned my taste for matchmaking in a comment on your previous article so I will not dwell on it here.
Halo 3 tweaked the gameplay to the point where it is buttery smooth perfection. Each weapon has its uses(except for the pistol) and each can be used effectively. Forge is great for creating new experiences. Replay is not new for FPS games, but it is a great feature to have. Bungie.net integration is amazing, from taking screenshots to saving movie clips, stats collection is second to none. Matchmaking is back with the ability for Bungie to add new map variants and game types without patches(which allows for special weekend playlists). Equipment was introduced which adds another level of strategy to the game.
I really do not see how you find TF2(I do not see anything new here from the old TF mod for Quake) or CoD4 being more innovative. Perks are an artificial way of making gamers want to keep playing. Halo 3 keeps people playing based purely on gameplay mechanics.
Perhaps my taste in games differs from yours. I found Tribes to be the most incredible game upon its release. Halo shares some definite traits with Tribes.
I love the first Halo but never got past the second because it just paled in comparison in pretty much every area.
Ian W.
Yousif needs to stop being such a fanboy and at least realize that Halo 1 2 3 are good games. Maybe not great, but at least good.
Halo 3 was better than halo 2.
Has there been ANY news on reach?
I CAN HAZ CHEEZBURGER? No but seriously, console gaming isn’t at its best yet but soon will be, we have to learn to be patient, not saying that its terrible either. Console gaming is actually pretty good, and with the MMO market coming over to consoles now I think things could shape up for the better.
@DevilXPanther
Well said.
@JaggedSac
‘Perhaps you need more knowledgeable people to spout your drivel at.’
People with knowledge enjoy drivel? Sweet!
On a more sensible note:
If i wanted to outline the differences between PC gaming and 360 gaming I could take all day on the matter, but better to leave it at my opinion and stay on the topic at hand I believe (also I’ve been edited to buggery Paul
)
Jagged – I agree with much of what you’re saying, but that’s more like an in-depth opinion piece; this was a discussion between three people with varying interests in Halo.
Guys, ok about the comment on not valuing a game for its menus screens, but I believe it is a tremendous error not valuing Halo for the impressive support Bungie places behind it
A solid online experience, no noticeable lag even with non fiber 20mb connections ( that is something the CoD franchise cannot brag about ), impressive amount of options, different types of maps and of play, vehicles, new gametypes, new playlists, impressive stat tracking. All of that is a pack of the game, it may be “menu screen” but it is something that drives thousands of players to keep coming. Quality of service and after sales support, with a system that works flawlessly every time under the vigilant and supportive eye of Bungie has a great value that no other developer, game or franchise can compete.
THAT is also a tremendous point that is not being given enough value.
The opposite example is Gears 2, a glitch ridden experience that has driven gamers away from it INDEPENDENT of the quality of the gameplay or game, the “menu screen” has been determinant in losing sales and support, creating a terrible reputation for the franchise by the way.
Well Xelai, check out Part 1:
P: I like Modern Warfare, but I don’t think it has the lasting effect of Halo 3. A lot of players own both, yet Halo 3 is still number one on the activity charts. You could put this down to a split in CoD players between MW and WaW though.
C: I own both and I haven’t played CoD4 in ages…since WaW came out. Yet, I do pop Halo on every now and then. So I agree with Paul there.
P: That’s because it’s an ever-changing online experience. Bungie care about their community. Not that IW don’t, but Bungie are always changing playlists. I haven’t seen CoD4’s playlists change once to be honest.
Yep I read it on part 1, but it is just a snippet of a comment. One that Yousif does not even acknowledge, as it seems to just be for him a “menu screen” instead of a fully fledged array of impressive features.
I believe gameplay is important, but just as important is being able to experience that gameplay or that even be able to play a game, something that in some infamous instances cannot even be done.
Anyway, nice feature and nice work.
halo is a good franchise, but they are milking the brand abit too much as the last couple of games in the series have not been great. hears hoping the new game can make a jump in the right direction.
@JaggedSac
Well put argument, I couldn’t have put it better myself. There is really no point in such uneducated discussions where clearly the person making the blanket arguments is not really aware of the game he’s talking about, and obviously the other people don’t really care. It’s all for generating random hits anyway, isn’t it?
I really hope you won’t bother with part 3. Even the stuck-in-the-past “TOP 10″ lists you had here before aren’t as bad as this.